Adventures in New Orleans Part 2 - Back To The Big Easy!

It's now 2018 and we travelled back to New Orleans for a 2nd time to record a new collection of songs for Audio Network. 

Part 2 of the series sees us  creating 3 great new albums covering New Orleans songs and brass band material.  

Find out how Jeff won a 10$ bet by writing a song about a sandwich, how we coaxed a bandful of musicians into singing one of our songs and how we cope with loud police officers in New York City..... 

If you haven't heard Part 1 of the series and want to catch up first, here's the link.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2526612/episodes/18085214

Transcript

Jeff (00:00.29)

Hey guys, today we're gonna talk about...

David

New Orleans 2018.

Jeff

New Orleans 2018? That sounds like a lot of fun. 

David

Yeah, it's gonna be fun.

Jeff

Jeff Megan. 

David

David Tobin.

Jeff

Welcome to another edition of Two Composers, Two Continents.

David (00:24.334)

So let's think about this. We had been to New Orleans in 2013. 

Jeff

Okay. One of those times.

David

Something like that, that’s our lives. We'd recorded a bunch of stuff and we were going to go back to New Orleans to record a collection of new material. So what did we do? What were we recording?

Jeff

A lot of the same kind of as I think, I don't know if we had an actual brief for this to go back to New Orleans…

David

No, we pitched this. 

Jeff

We did. 

David

We pitched this. We sat down and said, wouldn't it be fun if... 

Jeff

Don’t you think we need to…

David

It's been some time. And I mean, I remember we pitched songs. We'll get to... There was one song in particular that floated their boat from our first time around. 

Jeff

Oh yeah, you tell them.

David

So this was... We'd recorded a song called Back To My Roots.

With the late, great ‘Big Al’ Carson. They said, we want more songs and at least one of them needs to be like this. So there was a song brief. And then I think it was brass bands, New Orleans brass bands. And for anybody who hasn't listened to this style, it's not like a, I mean, I'm really talking to UK listeners. This is not brass band as we would know it in the UK. A whole different stylistic thing and they wanted an album of brass band music from New Orleans.

Jeff

What was different then about this time, or what?

David

I think we did two albums. Originally it wasn't as many as this, but often as we do, they say, why don't you do seven of those? And we say, well, if we're going all that way. 

Jeff

Since we're going to be there…

David

Let's do a bunch more. So we did a bunch of traditional jazz songs, if you will. 

Jeff 

Like New Orleans.

David

Yeah. And then we did some that were more Dr. Johnny, I'm just checking my list here, which was called Spirit of New Orleans.

So that was slightly newer, but Dr. John's some of them, but some of it like back to my roots, which was a little bit –

Jeff

Those were songs.

David

Yeah. Rock and roll. And then we did an album, which became known as Live in New Orleans available on the stream. 

Jeff

That was brass band stuff. But I mean, love the Squirrel Nut Zippers and I always think about them when I hear New Orleans music and use them as an inspiration constantly, really.

David

I'd never heard of them until you introduced me to them. 

Jeff

Yeah, I just love their music.

David

Where has this been all my life? If you've not listened to it, check it out on streamers, The Squirrel Nut Zippers.

Jeff (02:54.167)

Yeah, and so a lot of, a bunch of those tunes are kind of inspired from them and you know. Then just you know where inspiration takes you.

David

Yeah, so different stuff this time around. We're now gonna be recording, how did it start out?

Jeff

Well, the place we recorded the first time was Piety Street Studios, which was not available anymore. Someone bought it. It was either a private studio or not a studio anymore. I know there's some lore. 

David

Yeah, it’s a private artist’s place.

Jeff

So we were on the hunt for a new studio, we found Esplanade Studios, which I don't know. I would figure that we just found them via a Google search and…

David (03:34.478)

We had in 2013, we'd worked with this fantastic drummer. Hey, Eric. 

Jeff

Eric Bolivar.

David

And we had then said to Eric, how'd you feel about contracting a bunch of stuff? And he suggested that we recorded at Esplanade. So that was something we've investigated. And I should say when we started talking to Eric from, from the time we started talking, I actually went through all of my messages with Eric. This was over a year of planning just with Eric. I mean, there's patient and then there's Eric. We went through an endless amount of stuff. So let's talk about the history of Esplanade Studios, because this is a really unique building.

Jeff

Esplanade, so it was a church and after Katrina, it was vacant for a long time, I think 13 years, something like that. And Misha, forgive me, I don't want to –

David

Kachkachishvili

Jeff

Thank you, who purchased the building, a Grammy-winning engineer, recording engineer, sound engineer. He designed the studio, he redid the whole place and turned it into an incredible recording studio. So -

David (04:55.724)

It's even got the original, it was donated, an organ by Andrew Carnegie. Yeah the original, Andrew Carnegie's. 

Jeff

Alright, one of the Carnegies. We call them Carnegies here.

David

But I mean, when you walk in, it's quite an imposing building and it's absolutely gorgeous studio.

Jeff (05:16.342)

The pipe organ still works and I'm pretty sure he refurbished it.

David

So we'd gone through what we were going to record and there was going to be a bunch of songs and we needed to record rhythm section and horns and how we were going to do this and this was all great except it was slightly too expensive for us.

Jeff

Well, see, this is the problem when you say to yourself, “well, we're going to be there, we may as well do some more”. And the only way we could do some more is to change studios so we could afford to, within the budget that was given to us ,to record these other pieces.

David

And it's okay to say we also added a bit to that because we really wanted to do it. That's fine because we wanted to do it. It was our choice. So we're stumping up a bit as well. Ponying as you call it.

Jeff

Ponying it up. 

David

So we went to the music shed. Which was a cool place. Yeah. We met Jack Miele. Yeah, just great vibes all over the... I mean, it's such a great place to record and such wonderful people that, I mean, I would go back a million times.

David (06:19.182)

Mm. So we should then talk about the recording process of these. So we recorded rhythm to start with and we're talking about on variety. No, we should, you know, let me scrap that. We haven't even begun talking about the writing process. Let's start, we've got to make some songs here!

Jeff

Okay.

David

Let's talk about things like, I'm going to name some songs and then see where it takes your memory. We've got... 

Jeff

I can name that tune in 3 notes.

David

Yeah, okay. Dee dee dee…

Jeff

No, nope.

David

That was, I never felt... That wasn't even on these collections! So we did songs like, Chicory Mama. 

Jeff

Chicory Mama.

David

Chicory Mama, Down in New Orleans, Steam rising.

Jeff (07:07.704)

So some of the people that we knew we wanted to work with, there was a guy named Sean Carey who we worked with the first time, who was just an incredible singer. 

David

He’s been on every one of our NOLA collections.

Jeff

Yeah, we needed a singer for this tune, which was Here Comes The Parade, just a banger of a tune about, you know, a Mardi Gras parade.

Jack referred us to Sean, who was just killed it man.

David

Before you carry on with that, I think it's worth saying we had an interesting discussion when we were sat over a cup of coffee a couple of days ago, about which is the right vocalist for a song. We've got a fair idea of the type of voice we wanted and the sound that we wanted and what would suit the song. And it's really interesting that you get into a studio with somebody and in theory, it's the right voice for the right thing in the right place. And then you hear it and you produce it and it doesn't work.

What do you do? What do you do in that situation?

Jeff

Well I mean, luckily for us, we're in the ability, because we're the producers, we have the ability to go, “We're not going to use this recording. We're going to find someone else.” 

David

But you don’t stop the session right?

Jeff

No, no, no, absolutely not. 

David

So what do you do?

Jeff

So do we record and do our best to get the product that we're looking for. And then in the end, if it's not right, you know, then we'll get someone else to record it.

David (08:36.998)

My feeling is it's always about the song. It's not about me. It's not about anything else. We have to serve this piece of music. Yeah, and if it's not right, we'll do it again. And we're not asking for more money from anybody. It's out of our own pockets. Yeah, we'll do it again. And I think there have been a few pieces where we've done it again and again and again.

Jeff

I think there have been pieces where we have three vocals.

David

Yeah, and you're just, it has to be right. So anyway, we were writing these tunes and we should talk about another singer, you should talk about Aurora Nealand.

Jeff

Aurora Nealand, she's an artist in New Orleans, just the best. She's got such a unique voice. She's an excellent writer. She's a saxophone player or a woodwind player. I think she probably plays everything. Look her up because she's fantastic. She came into the studio one day, sang the tunes live with the band. She was in the iso booth.

David

So this is a Chicory Mama she did, and Down in New Orleans was another, and another was Steam Rising.

Jeff (09:38.306)

Yes, all, I just love each one of those tunes. I could listen to her sing all day long.

David

Tell us a little bit about, let's pick that one, tell us a little bit about Steam Rising and what the inspiration was behind the song Steam Rising.

Jeff (10:02.914)

I'll say in general, it felt freer lyric writing for the second time in New Orleans. Because it is a fact that I think in a lot of cases, the lyrics help sell the instrumental version anyway. And the instrumental version is what really gets used of these. So the lyrics aren't quite as important, but to me they are and to you they are, obviously. So all that to say that I felt like Steam Rising is a story, right? It's a story of a...of someone falling in love with a steamboat captain that comes into town. And in general, I felt free to write much more specific themes and just storytelling and stuff.

Jeff (10:59.704)

Chicory Mama is another one of her tunes, which I just love that tune. I love the whole vibe that the band laid down, that she laid down. Just amazing. And I love the way the lyrics are so suggestive and, but you know, doesn't really say anything out loud, but.

David

And I remember writing, getting the lyrics and then thinking, “I need four or five second intros on these that just make you get where this is gonna go”. And just pouring over intros, just having, I've got such a bug up my…

Jeff

And you do, thank God, yeah.

David

But I remember those two tunes. The intro was just so... the groove, Steam Rising... That thing of just... I need something that says, okay, I'm in the world of this. Immediately. 

Jeff

Absolutely. 

David

And that was really important to me.

David (12:04.77)

Let's talk about the trad jazz stuff. Because I've been listening to that since I was sure listening to music, but I'd never really thought about the form actually. And - if you can hear noises in the background, I'm just going to say, we're going to carry on, but this is New York City and the police have to be places. So if you can hear it –

Jeff

New York is being very New York today.

David

Certainly is. But anyway, so we're, we're going to record trad jazz and you get a pop song now, you got to get to a chorus quickly. That is not how these things were written. You could have a minute and half of music before a vocal comes in. And I remember us having conversations and certainly for me, do I do this how production music would be written, which is get to it fast or do I do it how it would have been? And I went that way. But that was a conscious decision.

Jeff

Yeah, which I love, like Sweet Praline, Praline, it depends who you talk to. You ran through the whole melody, you’ve got the whole tune and then suddenly Gregg Stafford starts singing and you're like, oh there's a vocal on here.

David

By the way, I mean, know we're, sidebar - so this guy, Gregg Stafford, Hey Greg if you're watching, absolutely phenomenal, amazing musician. And he was going to be playing at preservation hall that evening and he came in suited and booted in spats and the hat. Good Lord. You know that somebody means business when they turn up to sing and they look like that. 

Jeff

Like wow. We get the right guy!

David

Yeah, we got the right man for this job. So like, Hello my Nola he did. He doesn't sing for a minute and 20, a minute and 30 seconds into the song and the vocal comes in. Yeah. And I was a little nervous. I'm like, okay, can we get away with this as an arrangement for...

Jeff

That's right, second time through you feel a little freer,

David

There you go. Absolutely. I guess I did. I didn't even think about that. Would I have done that the first time around? Probably not. Probably I would have just said, okay, I've got eight seconds to get to the point here. And no, I didn't. We stuck to our guns and did it that way. And it felt right. It felt right because it was, this was about authenticity. These things were had to be authentically how they would have been. That's how it would have been so that's how we did it.

Jeff

That's why we go to New Orleans to record, right? 

David

Yeah. So there's no point in going to New Orleans to record and then not doing it how that tune would have been done. What's point? 

Jeff

Yeah, right. 

David

So yeah, that's how. So let's now fast forward. We'll talk brass band. The first thing I should say is that I was nervous because we didn't do that on the first time around. We did not do brass band recordings first time around.

Jeff (14:51.498)

Not in the same way, yes.

David

And this is a central tenet of New Orleans, the life, the music. And I'm not going to be profane with my language. So didn't want to, let's use the word mess. I did not want to mess it up. And you've got an Englishman writing arrangements in the style of this. And I was acutely aware of that. So I spent almost a week doing nothing but listening, just over and over, hour after hour until stylistically I could see it. I couldn't find scores, so it wasn't about looking, it was about listening. So I was listening to the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, and could name you 20 or 30 and I won't for time's sake, but I was listening to endless brass bands for form, for sound, for intent, for structure. How is this approached? What is it? Why is it that way?

Until I could sing it, feel it, smell it, listen to it, hear it, the whole thing. It felt like it was in me. I know it was a short time and people would live with this. 

Jeff

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David

But I started to feel like, okay, if I was going to write something now, I kind of know.

Jeff (16:05.694)

I mean, yeah, I mean we had the tunes, but yes, putting the DNA of New Orleans into it is, you know, a thing.

David

There's a very specific thing, and I mean, let's talk a couple of titles. We've got songs, we've got one called Second Line Time, and anybody, certainly UK people, but anybody who doesn't know about Second Line, what's Second Line?

Jeff

Don't put me on the spot. I don't want to give a definition.

David

No, I'm not giving a second line, but it's a specific rhythmic thing and a specific sound of brass band. Yeah. Hey, Jeff, talk us through the…

Jeff

Yeah, no.

David

He definitely isn't. But there's a specific rhythm and a specific sound and a specific drum beat to it and rhythmical feel to it. So we wrote a tune with that sound called Second Line Time.

Jeff (16:59.436)

Yeah, I mean all these other Esplanade, Hoodoo Mama, Piety Street, were kind of the titling, we were going to talk about the titling. Is this what you're talking about?

David

Yeah, so I have for another thing that I'm doing, I was, jenning up, you know, revising all of the important stuff about library music. I have said it now, it's not production music, library music. And I was reading a book. I hope you don't mind Dan Graham, I'm going to use your name. He's written this great book called A Composer's Guide to Library Music. And I was reading it and there was a chapter in it on titles. And I mean, we've been doing this a long time, but I'd never really thought about the importance of titling. And so one of the things in this was make things specific enough, but not too specific. And I was just looking at some of our titles. So we originally wrote a song called Hurricane, which absolutely talked about the area and that -

Jeff

But actually it was a love song. It wasn't even, it wasn't about a hurricane.

David

So it was completely pointlessly titled then, that's great.

Jeff

Well, it was my love is like a hurricane or something like that, can’t remember the exact thing.

David

But you know, we got rid of that. Audio network said, yeah, we really like musically, but not as a song. So we weren't willing to let it go. So we reworked it. Yeah. And we ended up with a piece called Psychedelic Love Funk. Sorry, Dan.

Jeff

Yes the titling is perfect, it says exactly what it is. 

David

Absolutely no idea.

Jeff

Well, which, and that tune gets used all the time. Yeah, know when you're about that. NCAA basketball, or it gets used on Foxx and all those.

David

But we also wrote one, there is one that says exactly where it is and what it is. We wrote a three-word titled piece called the Po Boy Tango. Po Boy is a New Orelans sandwich. So it places you there and it's a tango.

Jeff (19:04.416)

I mean, what more info do need?

David

What do you need? And we wrote one after the studio, Piety Street, so we went a bit with the with the titling on this.

Jeff

Yeah, we worked with some great singers on this, just want to talk about them. Dana Abbott, just an incredible rock singer. Yeah. Just wonderful gravelly voice.

David (19:28.462)

That was the song that was inspired by the, talked about Big Al Carson's back to my roots. I mean, she did a song called Back to Blues and also did she do? Yeah. You'll Never See Me Blue. That was the one that came from that. So, yeah.

Jeff (19:53.861)

Derrick Procell, he’s a Chicago dude, he sang on Knock Knock for us which is, I mean he did great. He sounds like, I don’t know I’ll have to talk to Derrick, is he originally from Chicago? Because he sounds like he’s got some soul in him, almost like he’s from New Orleans or something.

David

Derrick? Yeah he does and then there was Paul.

Jeff

Paul Mabin, another Chicago guy. We were again, trying to, trying to fit voices into these tunes after something else didn't work out. And I think it worked out extremely successfully. Everyone just knocked these tunes out of the park. Then that leads us to Mississippi Water. So tell us about the recording of that.

David

So the whole idea of this, there's a, the chorus of this has this born down by the Mississippi water, baptized by the music of the quarter. And the theory was, wouldn't it be great if the band sang it instead of everything? This was one of my funnest experiences. We were at the music shed, the band is laid around, you we've already done days and days of recording at this point already at Esplanade and come to there and then we just get the band to start singing and not just sing but they're just –

Jeff

Like interjections in between. Yeah, as if, you know, as if guys on the street or it wouldn't be guys on the bandstand, but yeah, just -

David

It was one of my funnest experiences just sitting around with the band made up of these these great first-core players. Guys have been doing this all their life. That was one of my favorite recordings on this. What about you? Pick a song.

Jeff

Here Comes The Parade. I just fricking love that tune. I love what Sean did with it. I just, it just makes me dance. Chicory Mama and Steam Rising I love. And then honestly, My Oh My Oh of the brass band stuff. I just bop to that tune, man. It's just got a bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump. And it just goes and it's just like perfect. The second I hear it, you got to start moving.

David (22:12.098)

So I'm going to go back just a second. You talked about what makes up arrangements and I kind of talked about listening and then really didn't give you an answer to your question. One of the interesting things about the brass band writing is that we do a lot of jazz and when you're writing jazz, you can write the specific stuff and then there's an awful lot of times when you're writing diagonal slashes where you're saying, just make some stuff up, just add a lib.

Now the problem with the brass band writing is that if you write ad libs on everybody's part, nobody really knows what they're doing. So quite a bit of it has to sound ad libbed, but it's written. So you're writing stuff to sound free. And so knowing how much to write and when to be really specific. And it's, it's all annotated, all noted down exactly. And how much to say, okay, free section here.

And there are, there are parts where you get to an end and just say go wild.

Jeff

There's the solo sections if you will.

David

But it tends to be that you start really formally written, everything written, and that there's this movement from exact to free, and you get to a section and say that, and then you'll come back to tight...

Jeff (23:32.054)

Especially in New Orleans, this style of music, because the wailing section at the end is like a huge part of it, right?

David

Yeah, because this is, a lot of this is marching music a lot of this is performed outdoors This isn't sit down and listen to it, right? 

Jeff

Yeah, especially this piece.

David

Yeah, absolutely. So so that's the whole the whole feel is that you have to get to a point where this is party time you know, that's the point. 

Jeff

Absolutely. 

David

And so so the more you write there's a sort of diminishing returns is what you said before, the more you write the less free it is. But you can't be completely free all the time. So you're just doing that…

And I was seeking, I was checking stuff. I was sending stuff and saying enough? Too much? Yeah, thank you to Mark Mullins, with the group Bonorama and check them out. If you have a, a rock group of trombone players, I'm going to say nothing except they are insane. It's fantastic. Grammy winning. Am I right in saying that?

Jeff (24:31.182)

I do not know, but sure they should be if they're not.

David

They are, but yeah, this, he was able to check stuff and I sent stuff and said, how are we doing with this? Am I going to get laughed at or am I at right place? He made a couple of really useful things, but he also said, you're killing it. This is right. You're in the right place. I felt, cause otherwise I would have been terrified going in there with that stuff. Just to not look like an idiot. You get that, that imposter syndrome feeling and I didn't have it. I felt pretty good.

Jeff

I mean second time so now we've been to New Orleans two times. We've met a bunch of people. We've got new studios. Fantastic experience. I can't, you know, go to New Orleans, if you can record some music in New Orleans.

David

Well, thank you Eric Bolivar because you are putting a huge amount of trust when you say, find me guys that can do this. And then you turn up and honestly, I mean, you can Google all you like, but you're putting music. It's always a thing going to a place where there are players that would kill this sound, but wouldn't necessarily read the music. And then there's people that would read music, but wouldn't necessarily be of the sound. Finding that sweet spot, that's not easy. And yeah.

Jeff

Yeah, so we also met Jay Weigel on this trip because we recorded some strings.

David (25:47.436)

For an entirely different project, we recorded strings.

Jeff

So yeah, moving forward, Jay has helped us out a lot. So we'll talk about him in another podcast as well.

David

I think he may even be a guest.

Jeff

Really?

David

Guest time! We're be doing some guest podcasts. But yeah, we did record as you say a lot of new people and with that always comes a slight, oh is this gonna be okay? And Yeah, Don Vappie,

Jeff

Yes, I just started at same time!

David (26:19.15)

I remember we went to the Jazz Museum in New Orleans and you always feel you're in the right place when you go into the museum and then you see the guy you're just about to work with pictured on the wall saying, a great from New Orleans and you go, okay, we're doing the right thing.

Jeff

We really love this project. We hope you guys, you know, go check it out if you're interested. Yeah

David

Yeah, I'll rename the albums. So there are three albums and you can all find these on streaming. There is Steam Rising. 

Jeff

Good.

David

There is Live in New Orleans. 

Jeff

Good. 

David

And there is Spirit of New Orleans, Volume 2. 

Jeff

Oh my good. We’ve got to write a volume three

David

If only there was another podcast to tell about New Orleans.

Jeff

Right? Yeah, planted. All right. Thank you so much for watching and listening, everyone.

David

Next time. 

Jeff

Bye.